A T&E Career of Learning by Doing: A Conversation with Edward R. Greer
Mr. Greer is retired U.S. Navy civilian and former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Developmental Test and Evaluation

Interviewed by J. Michael Barton, Ph.D., Parsons Corporation

Q:        Give us some background on your childhood and the impact it had on your career.

A:         I grew up working in a TV repair shop with my father, Aaron Greer.  My father was born and raised in Southwest, Virginia and started as a blue-collar worker at Patuxent River in 1947 after serving three years in Italy during World War II. He worked two jobs most of his life. He worked 33 years as a civil servant for the Public Works Department, Patuxent River, at the steam power plant. He retired in 1980 as a Wage Grade 10. He also had a part-time job repairing TV’s.  He took a home study course on TV and radio repair in the mid-1940s and averaged 98 percent on the exams. 

As a result of my interest in TV and radio repair, I chose to go to the St. Mary’s County Technical Center (vocational center) to study electronics. I took the vo-tech training for half a day during the last two years of high school. One of the lessons that I learned from my father centered on education.  He said, “Son, there are a lot of things in this world that you can earn, but they can be taken away – education is not one of those things.  Once you earn a degree, no matter what you do subsequent to that, no one can take that degree away from you.”  My father had to quit high school in the ninth grade to provide for his family during the great depression. Honesty, integrity, and forthrightness were the values that our father stressed most with his children.

After High School, I attended Virginia Highlands Community College (VHCC).  At VHCC, I majored in Engineering.  I soon realized I was behind most of my classmates because I did not take college preparatory courses.  Most of them had already taken Pre-Calculus, Physics, Chemistry, etc.  I don’t regret going the vocational-tech route, but I do wish I had taken the academic college preparatory courses.  I made up for the lack of academics with persistence and hard work.

I decided to major in engineering.  After the first year of being in the VHCC Engineering program, the college closed the program due to lack of student enrollment.  I found myself as one of eight students at the end of my freshman year wondering where to go next.  This forced me to move back to Maryland and attend Charles County Community College (now the College of Southern Maryland) where I continued in engineering.  While attending college full time I worked 30 to 40 hours per week at Patuxent River, I repaired TV’s at my father’s TV repair shop, and I taught adult education classes in electronics at the St. Mary’s County Technical Center at night to pay for my tuition. After attending Charles County Community College, I transferred to the University of Maryland at College Park and majored in electrical engineering. I was still employed at Pax. River as a contractor working 30 to 40 hours per week for DynCorp.

I graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in electrical engineering in 1980 and began my career as a civil servant.  In 1996, I earned a Master of Science degree in Management from Florida Institute of Technology.   I later graduated from the Defense Systems Management College and the Senior Executive Management Development Program—both had a positive influence on my career.

Q:        You have quite a family legacy at Patuxent River – parents, siblings, wife, children. It was a natural step for you.

A:         I am a native of St. Mary’s County, Maryland and we are a close family. My father worked at the Naval Air Test Center (NATC) from the late 1940’s until his retirement in 1980. I wanted to follow in his footsteps working locally for the Navy. My wife (Phyllis) and siblings worked at NATC.  In fact, I paid for my college tuition, room, and board with the money I earned working part time at NATC. I started to work at Patuxent River in 1976, where I secured a job with DynCorp in the calibration lab repairing electronic equipment. I started by repairing multimeters, oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, signal generators, RF generators, and anything else that was put on my workbench by my supervisor.  My TV and radio repair experience provided me with the necessary background to work on any piece of electronic equipment. Now my son, Derek, daughter, Angela, and son-in-law Cameron work at NAWCAD at Pax. River. A picture of my family is below. My daughter-in-law Linda works full time at Father Andrew White Catholic School. My wife, Phyllis and I love spending time with our four grandchildren, Evan, Ava, Zach, and Lilly.

Figure 1—My Family

Q:        What was your role in the test process at NATC?

A:         I worked a variety of jobs at NATC including instrumentation, metrology, range operations, flight test, and post-flight data reduction. I valued jobs that were hands-on. That philosophy carried over to my future positions. I learned the basics of flight test during my employment in instrumentation and metrology. The key to understanding flight test characteristics is governed by how you instrument the aircraft. Understanding the accuracy of measuring devices is equally important.

Q:        Did you know early in your career that you wanted to pursue a management path, or did that evolve as your experience broadened?

A:         I feel very fortunate, in that management came about as a natural progression at NATC. I started my career as an Electronics Engineer in the Laboratory Instruments and Standards Section, Technical Support Directorate in 1980. I was promoted to Head of that section in 1987, managing more than 70 people conducting acquisition and calibration of precision support equipment.  I served as Head of the Mathematical and Engineering Analysis Department in the Computer Sciences Directorate from 1989 to 1991, responsible for formulating and implementing long-range development and investment plans for computer resources.  I transferred to the Range Directorate as Head of the Software and Engineering Applications Department in 1991, responsible for real-time and post-flight data reduction, and computational structural analysis support to test engineers.

From 1993 – 1995, I worked in the office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD). I returned in 1995 to Patuxent River as the Airborne Command Post Integrated Product Team Leader for the acquisition, development, and deployment of the E-6B Aircraft. I was later promoted to Principal Deputy Program Manager of Airborne Strategic Command, Control, Communications Program Executive Office for Air Anti-Submarine Warfare, Assault & Special Mission Programs.  From 1995 to 1998, I served as Principal Deputy Program Manager for the E-6B Aircraft. More on these assignments later.

Q:        Prior to your political appointment, did you have assignments outside of the Navy?

A:         I did. From 1993 to 1995, I accepted an assignment in the Pentagon as a Staff Specialist in the Office of Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology, Test, Systems Engineering and Evaluation, Test Facilities and Resources (TFR). I also managed the Test Technology Development and Demonstration program where several new T&E assets were successfully developed and tested. The TFR Director was Mr. John Bolino. He was one of the most respected Senior Executive Service (SES) leaders in the Pentagon. John was not only my supervisor, but he was also my mentor. John took a personal interest in my career, and I attribute my success being promoted to SES at the Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) and later as a political appointee to John. He is still my mentor today. When I returned to Pax. River, I asked RADM Joe Dyer to be my mentor. He said yes. Having two well respected executives as mentors provided great insights into areas such as program management. As with John Bolino, now retired Vice Admiral Joe Dyer is still my mentor.

Q:        You worked in a program office at Pax. River after your stint in OSD. How did that experience help your career?

A:         From 1995 to 1998 I served as Principal Deputy Program Manager for the E-6B Aircraft Program Executive Office for Air, Antisubmarine Warfare, Assault & Special Mission Programs. I was responsible for all aspects of acquisition including systems engineering, logistics, training systems, and test and evaluation. Initially, I was assigned as the Integrated Product Team lead for the E-6A to E-6B upgrade, which consisted of migrating the Air Force EC-130 Airborne Command Post to the E-6A platform. The result was a major upgrade; hence, we renamed the platform E-6B. I was then promoted to the Principal Deputy Program Manager, Air position. I have always been a “hands-on” engineer and leader throughout my career. Every chance I had, I took advantage of flying onboard our weapon systems to see first-hand how the systems work, to seek feedback from operators on what challenges they were facing, and to listen to their input on how to resolve them. It was the sailors and JO’s onboard the E-6 aircraft who provided the best insight into how to fix the current limitations or deficiencies.  

Q:        When did you enter an executive leadership role at Patuxent River?

A:         I was selected for Senior Executive Service (SES) in October 1998 as the Director, Atlantic Ranges and Facilities, Naval Air Warfare Center, Aircraft Division (NAWCAD). I was responsible for all facets of development, maintenance, and operation of the open-air ranges and installed systems test facility components of the Navy’s principal Air Combat Systems test activity.  The Atlantic Test Range (ATR) controls fully instrumented and integrated test ranges that provide full-service support for cradle-to-grave testing. Airspace and surface target areas are used for test and evaluation of aircraft and for warfighter training missions. In addition to radar and optical tracking systems, fixed and mobile assets provide the necessary capabilities for diverse testing and training scenarios.

The Telemetry Data Center provides real-time radio-link reception, translation, processing, and display of test data using the Real-time Telemetry Processing System. This widely used system provides real-time test information from up to nine separate in-flight aircraft to support test engineering personnel.  Our inshore operating area, known as the Chesapeake Test Range, consists of selected targets and airspace covering regions over the Chesapeake Bay, Maryland, Delaware, and Virginia. Additional air/sea space is available in the Atlantic Warning Areas, located east of the Delmarva Peninsula over the Atlantic Ocean. ATR controls an aerial firing range and two exclusive-use surface target areas in the Chesapeake Test Range restricted areas.

Figure 2—Prepping to fly on-board the F-18 and to land on the USS George Washington Aircraft Carrier.

The 1,000-acre Webster Field Annex is about 13 miles southwest of Patuxent River. Webster Field is an auxiliary field for daylight testing and is home to VC-6, a squadron devoted to maintaining the Pioneer Unmanned Air System (UAS). ATR provides real-time connectivity to NASA Wallops Flight Facility; Fleet Area Control & Surveillance Facility, Virginia Capes; NAVAIR simulation and stimulation laboratories; and other NAVAIR and Department of Defense (DOD) major test ranges. ATR’s open-air range and ground test facilities developed for research, development, test, and evaluation also provided support for fleet and warfighter pre-deployment systems grooming and readiness training exercises. ATR coordinates multiple training events in airspace at ATR or at sites around the country. Carrier Strike Groups and Expeditionary Strike Groups are routinely supported, from small, unit-level events to large-scale, joint exercises.

Figure 3—After landing on the USS George Washington, I ran into my brother, Danny Greer, who was onboard certifying the carrier landing system, and the Carrier Commanding Officer, Captain Bill McCarthy, who was promoted to Rear Admiral after the tour.

My hands-on flying continued. We were experiencing multiple spill-ins and spill-outs of our restricted airspace. The pilots explained what the issue was, but I insisted on flying in the back seat to experience it myself. As it turned out, it was a combination of problems. Our local radar did not have a high enough sample rate to our local air traffic controller to give the pilots enough lead-time to start their turn. I procured new radars with higher sample rates for ATR and the spill ins and spill outs were reduced by 80%.

Q:        What was your next SES assignment?

A:         I later held two major positions simultaneously – one as Executive Director of NAWCAD, and the other as the Deputy Assistant Commander for Test and Evaluation, NAVAIR. As Executive Director, I oversaw a Command of 14,400 employees and ensured that technical, business, and financial objectives were met.  The Aircraft Division spanned three sites:  Patuxent River, Maryland; Lakehurst New Jersey; and Orlando, Florida.  We had a total operating budget of about $4 billion.  The mission of the Aircraft Division was to serve as the  Navy’s center of excellence for fixed and rotary wing aircraft and their propulsion systems, avionics systems, training systems, take-off and landing systems, associated support and equipment including air traffic control and communications, and ship/shore/air operations. As the NAVAIR Deputy Assistant Commander for Test and Evaluation, I was responsible for planning, executing, analyzing, and reporting all Naval Aviation test and evaluation across three sites:  Patuxent River; China Lake, CA and Point Mugu, CA. There were about 6,600 employees who made up the Test & Evaluation cadre. I was responsible for the implementation of policy and guidance on test and evaluation matters emanating from the Office of the NAVAIR Commander and Assistant Commanders. My tenure included integrating T&E with the timelines and events for the DODI 5000.02 Defense Acquisition Management System, the NAVAIR Systems Engineering Technical Review Process, and the new NAVAIR Technical Readiness Assessment process. I was responsible for a $940M budget and more than 100 airplanes, and the development of people, processes, and facilities necessary for acquisition and support of naval aviation systems. I instituted a process of T&E Program Assessments for all NAVAIR Acquisition Category I programs that provided the opportunity to identify concerns, risks, and issues early and to evaluate a test program’s feasibility.

Figure 4—Flying onboard the F-16 at Edwards AFB to see first-hand the impact of the wind turbine farms West of the 2508 airspace at Edwards AFB and China Lake. As a bonus we flew chase for the F-35 (AF-2) attempting to understand and collect data for the wing round-off issue.

While the Navy’s representative on the 2007 Defense Science Board Task Force on Developmental Test and Evaluation, my influence external to NAVAIR included serving on the Chief of Naval Operations’ T&E Cost Reduction Task Force and helping create the Navy T&E Board of Directors, whose responsibility and authority is to develop corporate integrated priorities for T&E for the Navy Warfighting Enterprises. 

As I stated previously, I value hands-on experience as a way of learning the details of the aircraft and to seek feedback from the operators. During my eight years as Executive Director at NAWCAD, I took maximum advantage of flying. I always had a technical objective that I wanted to achieve by the end of the flight. To list a few, I flew in the T-2, T-6, T-45A & T-45C, F-14, F-18, E2-C, AH1-W at Pax River (see Figures 2 and 3).

Q:        The Weapon System Acquisition Reform Act of 2009 recreated an OSD-level developmental test and evaluation organization, the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Developmental Test and Evaluation. You were the first appointee. What were your primary challenges in standing up this key function and organization?

A:         I served as the principal advisor on developmental test and evaluation (DT&E) to the Secretary of Defense and the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (USD (AT&L)). Sworn in March 15, 2010, I initiated the rebuilding of DT&E, responsible for policy and guidance in support of the acquisition of major DOD weapon systems. Other significant duties included reviewing and improving the organization and capabilities of the military departments with respect to DT&E and providing advocacy, oversight, and guidance to elements of the acquisition workforce responsible for DT&E. I served on the Defense Acquisition Board. Again, I took advantage of flying in aircraft to understand the issues at hand. I flew onboard the F-16 at Edwards AFB, the F-15 at Eglin AFB, and the Apache and Ch-47F helicopters at Redstone Test Center (see figures 4,5,and 6). I also spent 2 days inside an attack submarine—in my mind, one of the most lethal weapon systems in the DOD inventory.

Figure 5—Flying onboard the F-15 Strike Eagle at Eglin AFB prior to the OSD DAB briefing and decision board on the Suite 7 upgrade. My good friend, Bob Arnold, facilitated the flight and a wonderful helicopter tour of Eglin AFB.

I monitored and reviewed the DOD (Army, Air Force, and Navy) DT&E activities of the major defense acquisition programs, reviewing and approving the DT&E plan within the Test and Evaluation Master Plan for each major defense acquisition program, and ensured that those activities were fully integrated into and consistent with the systems engineering and development planning processes of the Department. I was responsible for developing new DT&E policies applied across the Department of Defense to streamline the acquisition timeline. I was the DOD advocate for the Acquisition DT&E workforce, and I submitted an annual report to Congress on the health of DOD acquisition programs executing DT&E.

Recall that creation of DASD (DT&E) followed publication of findings and recommendations from the 2008 Defense Science Board Task Force on Developmental Test and Evaluation. The Weapon Systems Acquisition Reform Act of 2009 followed the recommendation and created DASD (DT&E). As the first person to serve in the politically appointed position, it was my task to stand up the organization. Within the office of the DASD (DT&E), we created a “Playbook” to guide us in standing up the new DT&E organization, to ensure it was consistent with Test Resource Management Center (TRMC) and office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation policy and practices, and to assist future leaders who would hold the position. Meeting multiple times every week at the Defense Acquisition Board (DAB) for milestone approvals for acquisition program provided tremendous insight into the future of DOD weapon systems. DT&E was a significant  participant at the DAB meetings.

Figure 6—Flying onboard the Apache helicopter at Redstone Test Center. The pilot had recently returned from Afghanistan and was sharing Army lessons learned and how it was going to contribute to future upgrades to the Apache. The current Commanding Officer of Redstone Test Center was Greg Fortier. Greg was the second ever Army Commanding Officer of the US Naval Test Pilot Schedule at Pax. River.

Q:        You served concurrently as the Director of the Test Resource Management Center, responsible for the entire Major Range and Test Facility Base.

 A:        Yes, I was the second person to hold this political appointment. The TRMC organization was the result of the 1999 Defense Science Board Task Force Study of Test and Evaluation Capabilities and was created by Congress in 2003. My TRMC responsibilities were oversight of T&E facilities and resources of the Major Range and Test Facility Base (MRTFB), to develop and biannually update a strategic plan to reflect T&E resource needs of the DOD, and to guide the Services and Defense Agencies in planning and budgeting for future capabilities. I also reviewed component budgets and certified their compliance with the plan. We had three major activities beyond those mentioned above. We managed the only 6.3 program in DOD T&E, Test & Evaluation/Science & Technology (T&E/S&T).  We managed the Joint Mission Environment Test Capability (JMETC) program to bring DOD Services and Agencies together for joint testing. And we managed Central Test and Evaluation Investment Program (CTEIP), where prototype T&E capabilities could be transitioned to the Services.

I advised the Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, and the USD (AT&L) on matters pertaining to strategic planning for ‘and assessment of’ the DOD’s MRTFB, the nation’s critical range infrastructure for conducting effective test and evaluation of major weapon systems. Additionally, as Director I reviewed and certified proposed T&E budgets of Military Departments and Defense Agencies.

Q:        What involvement have you had with ITEA?

A:         I was twice President of the Southern Maryland Chapter of ITEA (the first ITEA Chapter), a former member of the Board of Directors, recipient of the President’s award in 2017, and 2018 recipient of the Allen R. Matthews Award and a life member.

Q:        You were recognized by the NDIA for career accomplishments in T&E.

A:         I was. It was a surprise when the Lifetime Achievement Award was presented to me. As the NDIA-sponsored Industrial Committee on Test & Evaluation (ICOTE) co-chair, the DOT&E and I met quarterly with original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) and major Contractor Support Services T&E directors to discuss major issues and barriers to acquiring weapon systems. We developed several NDIA white papers and presented to OSD leadership and Congress on proposals to solve major challenges. My lifelong contribution to T&E and the proactive participation on ICOTE were the driving reasons for my selection.

Q:        What advice do you have for people just entering the T&E career field?

A:         I value hands-on experience as a way of learning. Combine that with classroom education and the ability to work with experienced engineers and technicians in a challenging environment like Pax River, and you have the makings of a successful career. You combine what you learn by doing, with the background of a good engineering education, and you listen and observe as your mentors help you avoid missteps they have made or seen others make. Advice? Never hesitate to get your hands dirty by doing a job that needs to be done. Get as much education as you feel is right for you. And never refuse to let someone more senior than you share their opinion, advice, and experience. Respect where they have been and what they know, and you will be better for it. And be persistent in securing regular feedback on your performance. Another bit of advice is to join and participate in associations such as ITEA, NDIA, SFTE and others for knowledge and networking with senior leadership. Always take the time to be a mentor and at the same time continue to seek opportunities to find mentors.  Having and being a mentor is a lifetime commitment. Seek broader assignments outside of the T&E field. The door will always be open if you wish to return to a T&E organization. Most SES competitions require applicants to have broad and well-rounded experience. In my case, working in a program office and at OSD provided a broader experience that you would never get if you stayed in T&E your entire career. Both opportunities came about thanks to the mentor, John Bolino.

Q:        Do you have any closing remarks or observations?

A:         I am extremely proud of my family, their achievements, and the support they have given me throughout my career. I am proud of my work with the educational partnerships. Standing up the Mechanical Engineering program in partnership with the local community helped establish the education and research partnership between the NAWCAD, the University of Maryland, the Southern Maryland Higher Education Center, and the College of Southern Maryland is one of my most significant accomplishments.

We need to preserve mission critical air, land, and sea space if we want to continue to use our national assets. At one time, testing could be conducted within the confines of government ranges.  For example, we now have a proliferation of wind turbines near our test ranges, energy exploration in offshore areas, environmental constraints, and much more which impact our ability to test in real-world environments.  Even though we are moving more and more towards conducting a wide variety of testing indoor facilities/chambers, we need to work in partnership with local communities bordering our bases, elected officials at all levels, and with The Congress to preserve access to needed range space and spectrum.

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